Lightning Data??

[StormAlertAdmin]

As many of you know, lightning data is one of the sticking points among the meteorological community as the National Lightning Detection Network (NLDN) remains a privately owned network. Since the data are not government owned, the cost of obtaining real-time lightning data is astronimical since there is no competition (even the NWS pays an insane fee for this data every year). Infact, the parent company Vaisala is a Finland based company, so those actually paying for this data aren't even helping out our own economy!

Well, it just so happens that someone finally said "the heck with this monopoly" and is nearing completion of their own nationwide lightning detection network. The Norman, OK conglomerate known as Warning Decision Technologies is an amazing group of well known scientists and research affiliates that have developed a number of advanced technologies for the NWS, FAA and other organizations. Their hopes are to provide a superior network to the NLDN in the coming months, with a cost a mere fraction of the existing real-time data access.

This post (poll) is to see what interest there would be in obtaining real-time lightning strike data as an overlay in StormLab. I am hoping to receive a few data samples shortly to show you what it would look like.

NOTE: These figures may be wayyy out of whack and until I have full pricing information, this still may not be doable with you -- the general public. All depends on who they see as their clients.

Evan

[tweatherman]

Evan,
Ahh yes... I know JT Johnson and a few of the guys at (WDT) Weather Decision Technologies. I've been with them since '99. JT Worked for the NSSL back inthe late 80's and wrote some of the algorithms for the WSR-88D. While at NSSL he was instrumental in the development of the Warning Decision Support System (WDSS) and several severe weather detection and prediction algorithms. (MS in Meteorology, Univ. of Oklahoma. Nice to see someone trying to break up the monopoly.

Regards,
The Weatherman (Tim)

[racenet]

Yes, it is great to see someone else willing to give Vaisala a run for their money. I spoke with Brandon Wilkes yesterday about their network and was quite impressed. Their network is light years ahead of the Vaisala network. He couldn't give me any solid pricing, but said they expect it to be in the ballpark of 50% less then what Vaisala charges. That is good news. Right now they only cover the south east, but will be expanding toward the west very soon and up into the north east by summers end. I'm sure once they bring everything online, we will see great results.


Bob

[StormAlertAdmin]

Yeh, that's my concern based on the initial info Brandon sent me. Knowing what the starting base is, I'm afraid that even 50% is still well out of the reach of most users. However, given the connections I have and obviously several of you have with this great bunch of people, maybe we'll be able to reach a special agreement to allow StormLab general users access to the data.

We'll see what happens, but we still have a good 4-5 months before the network is completed anyways!

Evan

[racenet]

I'm sure they will be open to any reasonable requests that will make their new network shine. Being the new kids on the block, they sure won't be coming out of the gate with a screw the subscriber attitude. That wouldn't be a wise business plan and wouldn't make them any better then Vaisala. They seemed very eager to work with new customers and their requirements. Now may be the time to lay the foundation with them, while things are still on the ground floor level.



Bob

[NEIN_Weathernut]

Penny 1) The information would be a nice data add-in to help us see how intense a storm/squal line is...

Penny 2) Which version would it be added to? Are we talking putting add-on's only to Pro? That effect's my poll answer...

[JonNOklahoma]

Evan, I'd be very interested in paying a reasonable fee for some good lightning data. Unfortunately, even though I'm a meteorologist by education, my current occupation isn't in meteorology and I only follow it as a hobby (thus my interest in StormLab Pro and Interwarn). So, I'd be one of those general public types that couldn't afford a significant fee for lightning data access. But man oh man, I'd sure like to have lightning data!

P.S. I voted for $30/month. Much more than that and I'll probably be out of the picture. :confused:

[Hanford]

Since I live in lightning central (Central Florida) I would be very interested in having realtime lightning data.

[wxbeck]

So Evan, have any new info on the lightning data?

[StormAlertAdmin]

If I did, it would be posted here, no? :)

Gotta say though...poll results don't look too good folks. If only 30 of you want this, I can tell you that it's not going to happen. Granted only a small fraction of StormLab owners are actually forum members, but I still consider 30/400+ a percentage that suggests maybe this isn't worth looking further into.

Evan

[Brett Adair]

I personally use another program for lightning data and since I don't see this lightning integration thing happening, maybe I can chat with Evan and get this program out. I am not going to go at liberty to say what it is until I speak with Evan himself. :)

[BRCross2768]

Evan,

Even though I believe in the development of a good business foundation and the payment of services -- such as your program is resonably priced, so should the markit abroad.

The National Lightning Detection Network charges about as much as a number of bults of lightning does, the charges are WAY TOO HIGH. It used to be that a company called WeatherBank did not charge for anyone living west of the 100th parellel -- and $1,200 a month east of that point.

There is a servicing system -- program, charges $99 a month. Still, this is WAY TOO HIGH.

There are a number of lightning detection systems out on the markit, cost is $770 to $900 average with taxes, program, local mapps and extras.

So I believe there is a point when you have to say enough. You started it by showing that it is not necessary to to bend when it comes to affordable weather data.

I have something to say to them. Like it or not, like me or not, take it as they will or you will.

It's time to give them the shock of their life and show them that we are in the markit to stay, come well, you understand, hail and high water!

Brian R Cross

[RobertBuell]

Originally posted by Brett Adair
I personally use another program for lightning data and since I don't see this lightning integration thing happening, maybe I can chat with Evan and get this program out. I am not going to go at liberty to say what it is until I speak with Evan himself. :)

My vote was for $30/mo. I figure anything that comes along has got to be cheaper than what's out there now.

Brett, I'm not sure why you don't personally see the "lightning integration thing happening" as I certainly do at some future point. The only real issue at hand is somebody deploying a network to detect and accurately position it.

Curious as to what other program you use for lightning data. As far as software goes, I have just about everything worth having and know of nothing outside of the toy/gimmick category that doesn't rely upon the current detection network.

--RB

[BRCross2768]

<b>Evan and all members of the group. Lightning data integration is the one thing I've been pulling for and I do see it happening</b>

And as an American, I know that other people have been stepping on my toes where my right to data began. Protecting that right for all people in the United States to have a choice of cheeper and affordable data is important.

I don't mean to sound mean. But anyone who doesn't needs a serious lesson in life.

If we didn't have that belief, we'd be paying $10 for a glass of water like everyone else does in countries that don't allow it.

Reaching for the goal of affordable service has been Evan's goal and even then it has been difficult, note that he has not given up yet.

Niether am I. And no one else should either.

[Joe]

I'am all for lightning integration, and do feel this will happen at some point in future with regards to Storm lab. NLDN is I feel a joke, I wouldn't pay a single penny to help Finlands economy or wherever there located. Hopefully a deal can be made with WDT at some point in time.

Thanks Evan for a great program with or without lightning data!:D

[RobertBuell]

Originally posted by BRCross2768
<b>Evan and all members of the group. Lightning data integration is the one thing I've been pulling for and I do see it happening</b>

And as an American, I know that other people have been stepping on my toes where my right to data began. Protecting that right for all people in the United States to have a choice of cheeper and affordable data is important.

I don't mean to sound mean. But anyone who doesn't needs a serious lesson in life.

If we didn't have that belief, we'd be paying $10 for a glass of water like everyone else does in countries that don't allow it.

Reaching for the goal of affordable service has been Evan's goal and even then it has been difficult, note that he has not given up yet.

Niether am I. And no one else should either.

Hey BR, are ya running for office or something? :D ;)

I agree that any competition to the existing network has the potential to be beneficial to everybody. I know I certainly look forward to seeing the present monopoly crumble.

--RB

[Wallyhol]

Hi Evan...

I am new to this forum, but I am 100% ready and willing to go maybe $20/per month knowing You can't turn it off in the winter months for us people North of 40 degrees.

Weather Decision Technologies is supposed to be calling me after his meeting is over with. I think he is asking for 49/month for a 50X50 mile area, but willing to tailor it I think.

So You people that have StormLab would probably be getting a really great deal if Evan can get this added to Stormlab without having to subscribe yet to another service. Evan..I am really surprised not more haven't commented.

StormLab Pro really Kicks Ass...the Best!
Wally

[ShadowAngel]

I would be interested.

[ShadowAngel]

I am using WDT now...a six hundred mile area. It seems to be working pretty good. I am waiting for them to add looping and some other features.

You can zoom in on your county and see each individual strike.

Will have to wait and see how it does during a decent outbreak of storms.

[tom misner]

I'm Listening...

[jwilliams]

yes yes wdt -
this would be the info
http://www.uspln.com/data_services.html

[Chris_McCray]

Are there currently any plans to be implementing lightning data into SL?

[Rodney Neff]

I just found this web site ...http://www.strikestarus.com/
http://www.wunderground.com/radar/help.asp#lightning
Weather underground uses this.

[SA_Scott]

The idea is a VERY neat initiative. The people involved in this project are good friends of both Evan and I.

Unfortunately, unlike the national network, you're dealing with an attempt to coordinate home user Boltek sites which are subject to many errors that are critical to lightning detection, including, but not limited to: PC clock errors, siting/calibration errors of the Boltek device (I have one and they are HIGHLY subject to interference and siting location issues), and transmission/internet timeliness. Not to mention that these sites are presently few and far between.

For example, the current map shows a number of strikes in Illinois when there isn't a radar echo within 500 miles of there.

I hope this endeavor works out in the long run, but unfortunately, the 3rd software for the Boltek is leaps and bounds better than the device itself.

We are still looking into a few cost effective options that will bring lightning data to StormLab, and maybe these guys can work out the kinks.

Definitely a link to keep bookmarked in the meantime though.

Scott

[Robert Watson]

I can tell you first hand, the national network isn't perfect either.

We've had strikes in my area, that were picked up and verified by other StrikeStar sites that the national network never registered.
Chalk one up for the little guys! :)


Bob

[Rodney Neff]

Scott,
I know where you can get $20 dollars a month lightning data. They use it for other software. I dont want to leave the web site because of that. Maybe if you want to I'll pm or e-mail to you. Just leading a helping hand.

Rodney

[SA_Scott]

Rob,

Indeed, it's a neat experiment and hopefully (like all those strikes in IL last night), they can work out the kinks. As I said, it's a WONDERFUL endeavor and I hope it works out in the long run. It would certainly provide SL users a cheap if not free alternative!

While the national network may not be perfect, it is typically about 95% accurate to within a mile. It is also supported 24/7 and the individual sites are spaced sufficiently to provide full US coverage, even if one were to fail. The clocks are also synched so that when strikes are triangulated, there's an additional certainty involved.

I don't think any network will be perfect. Lightning is a 3D electromagnetic wave, attempting to be sampled and triangulated by 1 dimensional sensors. Unlike the GPS satellites, you're dealing with a lightning bolt that lasts for tenths of a second. It's really quite fascinating when you think about it.

Rodney, go right on ahead and PM me or send Evan an email. We're in talks with a couple folks to get the price down and this may be one of them.

Best Regards and happy football Sunday everyone,
Scott